Which is Better (& Faster)?

Mindy:At present we’re settling the last word funding showdown, actual property or shares. Which path will truly get you to struggle sooner? Good day, good day, good day and welcome to the BiggerPockets Cash podcast. My title is Mindy Jensen and right this moment I’m so excited to introduce you to Amber Lee Grant, who’s going to be becoming a member of me as my co-host whereas Scott is out on his paternity depart. Amber Lee is a pricey buddy of mine. She was featured on episode 449 of the BiggerPockets Cash podcast. She is a hearth fanatic too and has investing data each actual property and cash and each American and Canadian as a result of she is a twin citizen. She runs Fin Talks, which is a Tuesday night finance dialogue and she or he goes to be so nice as a fill in for Scott. Amber, thanks a lot for becoming a member of me right this moment.

Amberly:Mindy, what an intro. Thanks a lot for having me. I’m so excited to be spending this time with you just about and serving to you co-host the BiggerPockets Cash podcast. I like all issues finance and actual property. It’s simply been one thing that I’ve loved for the previous, actively 5 years however passively by studying books since I used to be 15 years previous and I’m not going to say how previous I’m right this moment. You guys can determine it out over time, however I’m so much older than 15 years previous now. I’m going to place my finest Scott voice on and let you know BiggerPockets has the purpose of making 1 million millionaires. You’re in the proper place if you wish to get your monetary home so as as a result of we actually consider that monetary freedom is attainable for everybody irrespective of when or the place you’re beginning. Did I do this proper, Mindy?

Mindy:Scott’s voice is a little bit decrease, however in any other case excellent. Glorious. Amberly to start out us off, what’s your present 5

Amberly:Portfolio? My portfolio is 40% actual property and 60% inventory. Although that’s not all the time been the case, I began off virtually solely investing in actual property whereas I used to be type of siphoning some cash into the inventory market. So I began off in round 2019 at 75% actual property and 25% inventory over time from about 2019 to 2023 earlier than I purchased my main residence. I might say it stayed fairly excessive in actual property however extra of like a 50 50 after which I purchased a main residence so issues began to maneuver once more into the 40% actual property, 60% inventory due to modifications within the inventory market and different issues.

Mindy:So Amber Lee, my portfolio is definitely 62% shares, 37% actual property and the remaining one-ish % is money. The runup within the inventory market over the past, effectively not the previous few months, however the finish of final 12 months, all of 2024 truly received our inventory portfolio up considerably in addition to a whole lot of our syndications bought off. In order they bought off, we received the money and put it again into the inventory market. So it’s been type of biking via out of actual property into the inventory market as a result of for some time we have been about 50 50 shares in actual property, however my actual property could be very completely different than your actual property. My actual property consists of my main dwelling fairness as a result of my home is an funding, it’s a reside and flip. So I purchased this for a low quantity. I’m placing some huge cash and time into it and I’m going to repair it up, promote it subsequent 12 months and take all of that money out of the actual property bucket and put it into the inventory market. I do a whole lot of personal lending. I’ve a few syndications left and I’ve investments in native small companies that I’ve simply counted as actual property as a result of a whole lot of these are actual property associated.

Amberly:It appears like over time you’re type of getting out of the actual property recreation. Is that right with regard to what you’re doing?

Mindy:I believe our actual property and inventory portfolio type of ebbs and flows, however proper now it’s flowing extra in direction of shares. You’re proper, as a result of actual property may be extra time intensive than I would really like it to be. I’m. I all the time contemplate myself to be the identical age as all people, however I’m not. I’m considerably older than you, than Scott and I’m eager to declutter my life, so I’m taking hassles out of it and generally actual property may be actually time intensive and I’m in search of very low time dedication investments.

Amberly:Yeah, I fully perceive that and I believe after we go into what we would favor, we’ll undoubtedly discuss passive versus energetic earnings sources for hearth as a result of they’re very completely different relating to shares or actual property. Don’t you agree?

Mindy:I do agree. I believe that there’s this romantic notion that actual property is so attractive and also you’re going to make a lot cash out of it, and for a very long time that was true, however now we’re on this interval of upper rates of interest and I speak to lots of people who say issues like, oh, I’ve to put money into actual property, don’t. There’s lots of people who don’t actually have any curiosity in actual property, then don’t put money into actual property. The very best time to not put money into actual property is while you’re not all that thinking about it. I’ve all the time been invested in actual property, I’ve all the time been thinking about actual property. I like the thought, however I get a little bit lazy in my previous age and I simply don’t need to put the time into it anymore. So we each have actual property in our portfolio, however Amber Lee, is that essentially the very best car to get you to fireside sooner in right this moment’s market?

Amberly:Sure. Actual property, relying the way you do it, can exponentially change your path to monetary independence and it requires a whole lot of sacrifice and exhausting work if you happen to do it the proper means. Shopping for a main residence received’t get you there, shopping for a home that you simply’re going to flip. If you could find an acceptable priced home with an acceptable rate of interest, which that’s the large downside with right this moment’s market, can actually make it easier to transfer on the trail to fireside. So actual property, if you’re doing a little kind of home hacking nonetheless or a live-in flip can undoubtedly exponentially change your path to fireside although I don’t find it irresistible as a result of I’m over it proper now.

Mindy:Okay, so like we mentioned earlier, Amber Lee and I are nice buddies. I’ve been to her home, I’ve seen that she resides via a development zone. I’ve additionally lived via a development zone. I actually like this reply for lots of causes. The reside and flip can generate some huge cash. I’ve made I believe 700,000 tax-free {dollars}, I ought to say greater than as a result of I don’t keep in mind the precise quantity greater than 700,000 tax-free {dollars} over the course of my live-in flipping life, which began in 1996. I like this concept as a result of I don’t need to pay any extra taxes than I’ve to, but in addition this is without doubt one of the most secure methods to take a position as a result of it’s your own home. If the market crashes, as quickly as you purchase the home, you continue to are going to only reside in it. Your exit technique can simply be proceed to reside there as a result of when you promote it, you’re going to have to search out someplace else to reside.Why would you promote it for a loss if you happen to didn’t need to? So the reside and flip technique may be fairly profitable, particularly if you happen to’re coming right into a interval the place the inventory market goes up. There have been rumblings proper now from the Fed saying that they’re going to consider decreasing charges close to the tip of the 12 months. We now have inventory market uncertainty and we’ve a brand new administration proper now who’s throwing out some completely different modifications. So this might change the financial system that we’re in proper now. When the financial system goes down, the fed needs to bump again up, they’re going to lower rates of interest, which is able to trigger individuals who have been sitting on the sidelines ready for charges to come back down to leap again into the market, which is able to carry up the market. So a reside and flip is a superb thought on paper you simply mentioned that you’re over it. Completely hear you. I’m in my final reside and flip my closing reside and flip as a result of this can be a lot of labor. I don’t assume there’s one wall on this home that we haven’t touched and we’re not accomplished but. It’s been 5 years, we took a while off for Covid, however it’s weighing closely on us and we simply need to get it accomplished.

Amberly:Yep, fully perceive and such as you mentioned, with modifications in the environment, so inventory market, no matter it may be, generally having that cushion of a main residence that you simply’re residing in, that you simply’re flipping or that you’ve got roommates can actually make all of that uncertainty really feel a little bit extra sure. So it’s a way that you’ve got a way of management over your setting and truly over your doable income sooner or later simply relying on what you do with the home. I do discover some folks with reside and flips, you must watch out to not produce your own home, make it look higher than every little thing round you. So simply holding in thoughts that if you end up doing this, there’s a market that you simply’re going to need to stroll again into with your own home and so simply guaranteeing that your private home matches the market round you,

Mindy:I believe that’s a extremely nice level. You don’t need to over enhance as a result of your consumers aren’t going to see that as worth to them. So whereas we’ve had a beautiful dialog about live-in flips, I do need to disagree along with your viewpoint and say that for me, I believe the inventory market goes to be a greater car to get you to fi sooner. So presumably we’re speaking to someone who’s new to the house and who needs to achieve monetary independence as quickly as they will. Now I do have the benefit that I’ve spoken to about 600 folks about their path to monetary independence and over the course of this podcast, and it appears to me that investing within the inventory market is the quickest option to get you there. So the inventory market has no, you haven’t any bearing on what the inventory market goes to do.I like the inventory market as a result of it’s a set it and neglect it type of means of investing. You place your cash in and then you definitely wait and I’ve seen the inventory market going up and sure, I’m going to handle the people who find themselves saying, effectively after all it’s been going up since 2008. Sure it has, however I’ve been investing since 1998 and it has gone up and down and up and down and up and down, however over the course of time it goes up into the proper. In case you zoom in on that over the course of time you’ll see a whole lot of ups and downs, however I place confidence in the American financial system and the power of American companies and I do consider that the inventory market will proceed to go up into the proper. One other factor I need to level out is that if you’re simply discovering the idea of monetary independence, you might be both younger and have a very long time horizon or you might be older and need to get there sooner.In case you’re older and need to get there sooner, you in all probability have a better earnings than our youthful cohorts. You won’t have a lot time to place into investments like actual property, studying about actual property. It isn’t simply I need to put money into actual property, I’m going to purchase a home and there we go. There’s much more concerned in that. So I believe that particularly if you’re older, effectively it’s higher for each folks since you’ve received this very long time horizon. You’ll be able to simply set it and neglect it after which when it’s time in your retirement, there’s your cash and I’m oversimplifying it. Previous efficiency isn’t indicative of future features, however I do consider that historical past repeats itself. My pricey listeners, as it’s possible you’ll or could not know, we’ve a brand new BiggerPockets cash publication whereas we’re away, go over to biggerpockets.com/cash publication to subscribe right this moment. Now a fast phrase from our present sponsor, welcome again to the present.

Amberly:So I perceive your level. I fully get it that to begin with it’s a neater means and a really for somebody particularly beginning out whether or not you might be increased earnings or decrease earnings or you could have time otherwise you don’t have time, it’s a extremely good way simply to get began and to truly transfer in direction of the purpose of monetary independence. The factor although with actual property is that we forgot to speak in regards to the rental earnings that may come from actual property. If you’re once more renting out rooms in your own home, not only a flip, after which the place do you set that cash? The inventory market. So then what about tax advantages? So that you’re decreasing perhaps a better earnings tax that you must a decrease one after which funneling that cash into the inventory market. You may need appreciation in your own home while you promote it, such as you mentioned, you’re going to funnel it into the inventory market. So for me, I actually do see the inventory market although I perceive your level. A home I believe offers you each.

Mindy:I like that you simply’re funneling your actual property cash into the inventory market. I’m questioning in regards to the time dedication for studying actual

Amberly:Property. Completely horrible.

Mindy:Sure.

Amberly:Okay, I received you on that one.

Mindy:Scott Trench has mentioned that if you happen to don’t have is it 200 hours to find out about actual property and actual property investing, then it’s not the funding car for you. And if you’re, let’s use our older new hearth follower and so they’re older, they’re set of their methods, they’ve received their life happening, they perhaps have children, perhaps they’ve all these completely different obligations {that a} younger single like 25 simply out of faculty won’t have the identical obligations. I’m not saying that you simply don’t have obligations, kids simply saying that the older you might be, the extra your life is already set and now that you must discover 200 hours in your day to go and determine actual property. I prefer to say you could have more cash than time. The inventory market may be a more sensible choice for them. They may have the benefit of cash.They only have been spending it paycheck to paycheck kind of state of affairs the place they don’t have so much saved or they’ve the benefit of getting more cash that they will plow into the inventory market. They’ve the after 50 compensate for their 401k, on their IRA and they won’t, like I mentioned earlier than, they only won’t have the time to place into studying actual property. Actual property is a whole lot of work. You may make some huge cash in actual property. I’m not saying it’s not an awesome funding. I’m saying that it’s not the one which’s going to get you quickest to fireside. I can see that if you happen to’re doing it proper, which means you obtain them again when rates of interest have been 3%, that might provide you with a a lot greater increase than someone who’s doing it proper now. But when someone’s beginning proper now, I’m going to counsel shares additionally. Let’s speak once more about the previous few weeks. The inventory market’s been up and down and up and down. There’s some uncertainty within the inventory market proper now. So while you’re placing your cash into the inventory market and also you’re shopping for on sale, you’re shopping for when it’s decrease, perhaps you purchase after which it drops a little bit bit, you purchase once more when it drops. I consider that the inventory market will finally return up. You’re getting all of these features with out having to attend for the housing market to catch up.

Amberly:It’s true, and I’m not altering my place although. I do need to reinforce that actual property isn’t passive. So for me, my time and a focus to my portfolio has been exhausting. So once I moved into my second duplex and I did some flipping in there, I needed to get HelloFresh delivered as a result of I didn’t have the time and power to even take into consideration meals or go to the grocery retailer. I actually had 15 of my buddies on my birthday come and assist out and do an enormous punch listing of duties. In order that was very nice. Shout out to the Denver Longmont PHI group and I discover such as you mentioned, that you must have some kind of data on this as a result of one dangerous buy occurs unexpectedly. The inventory market, you’ll be able to greenback price common in over time. In order that does make sense which you could type of hold hitting these lows and get to a excessive or simply proceed to take a position over time.However one buy the place you purchase your own home 50 over asking and you may’t promote it for that quantity actually can sink you in actual property. So that you do need to be educated and such as you mentioned, a ardour for it. So I’ve a ardour for actual property and in order that’s pushed me in direction of that and pushed me in direction of my opinion with regard to why I believe somebody can replicate this although it’s harder on this setting. It may well occur if you happen to’re doing it appropriately and that you simply’re discovering the proper place with the proper realtor, the proper metropolis, et cetera. So that you won’t be shopping for in San Francisco although. My sister did simply get a home there and it wasn’t that loopy. So there’s methods to do it. So I perceive what you’re saying. There’s a time dedication, psychological and bodily relating to actual property and that passive half that you simply’ve gotten to a whole lot of occasions doesn’t occur with out the data to search out syndications and the proper folks or having a property administration firm, however then you must handle them. However somebody beginning out with a little bit bit of cash can’t actually get into that stage for some time.

Mindy:100% agree. The cash could be a massive barrier to entry and there are methods round it. I’m investing in actual property proper now via my reside and flip. So I’m on this property with a proprietor occupant mortgage, in order that’s decrease rate of interest than an investor mortgage remark. You need to truly reside within the property to get an proprietor occupant mortgage. So don’t say, oh, I’ll simply get an proprietor occupant mortgage and I promise I’ll reside there, wink wink. When actually you’re not planning on that, that’s thought of mortgage fraud, which is a felony, which is as much as 30 years in jail, so don’t do this. However if you end up investing, there are methods round these boundaries, however finally you might be nonetheless placing at a minimal 3% down, normally extra like 5% or 10% down in your proprietor occupant property. You need to reside there for a 12 months.As soon as you reside there for a 12 months, you’ll be able to transfer out and hire the entire property. You’ll be able to hire by the room in case your metropolis permits whilst you’re residing there as an proprietor occupant, you’ll be able to hire out different rooms to different folks that may make it easier to pay your mortgage. We name this home hacking. There’s numerous alternative ways to get into actual property, however it’s nonetheless much more costly than stepping into the inventory market. I don’t know what the minimal funding within the inventory market is, nevertheless it’s an entire lot lower than shopping for a home.

Amberly:I imply the minimal is 5 bucks if it permits it, proper? If you should purchase a fractional share. So relying on what platform. Nicely, Mindy, if you happen to have been to redo your journey, such as you mentioned, you made 700,000 in a flip and so let’s simply say

Mindy:Over a bunch of flips.

Amberly:Over a bunch of flips, sorry. Yeah, yeah, after all. Yep. Let’s simply say not from right this moment, however if you happen to have been to return, would you go the identical route you probably did right this moment or would you could have taken a extra passive route?

Mindy:Oh, option to put me on the spot. I’d in all probability do the identical factor.

Amberly:Yeah, no,

Mindy:The reside and flip is such an effective way to generate funds and it comes with guidelines. You need to reside within the property for at the least two years. You need to reside in it and personal it for 2 out of the final 5 years to get the tax-free capital features. Like I mentioned, I’ve made $700,000 over the course of, and that’s not even counting this home. I haven’t bought it but, however I’m going to make one other 300 at the least on this home once I promote it just because I put the time into it. I lived in a dump. I imply it’s not glamorous. I reside in a development zone. My home isn’t completed. My children are generally embarrassed of the best way the home seems, which makes me unhappy as a result of it’s an awesome home, it simply doesn’t have any trimmer on the home windows. That’s not a nasty factor.However I’ve lived in a home the place I didn’t have a wall I a plastic wall as a result of we have been constructing and had opened up the ceiling on the again half of the home and it was somewhat chilly. My washer pipe froze. I’ve accomplished a whole lot of dishes within the bathtub as a result of main over, I’m not washing them as I’m taking a shower, however I’ve accomplished a whole lot of dishes within the bathtub and made a whole lot of crockpot meals within the basement as a result of my kitchen was undone. I’ve accomplished 10 kitchens, we transformed 10 kitchens, which isn’t tremendous enjoyable while you’re within the rework, however you recognize what’s a whole lot of enjoyable cashing that massive test and writing $0 of it to the Uncle Sam.

Amberly:And I believe one of many issues that we aren’t relating is that labor, the psychological and bodily labor doesn’t essentially have a greenback per hour price. So it may be actually tough to search out the place you might be spending your precise cash. It may be time that you simply’re spending. And for me, the rationale why I say actual property could also be one of the simplest ways for somebody to go, however in my state of affairs now with two younger children, having a development zone isn’t possible anymore. So I must pause on that. As I discussed, stick all my cash within the inventory market that I’m producing after which journey that prepare for a short while

Mindy:Stay in flipping. May not be interesting to some folks. I completely get it. I don’t need to reside in a development zone anymore both. An alternative choice for making the most of the decrease rate of interest for the proprietor occupant is home hacking. Both shopping for a home with extra bedrooms than you want or a small multifamily, a two unit, three unit, 4 unit can all be bought with a residential proprietor occupant mortgage once more, as long as you’re planning on residing within the property for at the least one 12 months. However then in an ideal world, the hire that you simply acquire from all the opposite folks ought to cowl your whole bills, however even when it doesn’t cowl your whole bills, you’re nonetheless decreasing your residing prices just by sharing your house with different folks.

Amberly:Yep. That’s how I began out primarily, nevertheless it was one thing I changed into an up down duplex and had different folks, particularly short-term leases pay my mortgage. That was actually useful. I don’t know if you happen to’ve invested outdoors of the state, outdoors of your main residence and acquired an funding property someplace else. I’ve inherited funding properties outdoors of my native space and inherited which means I pay the mortgage however inherited within the sense that I wouldn’t have gone and acquired these properties. However I do have them and so they’ve labored out fairly effectively to be a protracted distance property supervisor, however once more, extra work and so they have been purchased and I took them over when rates of interest have been decrease. So I don’t know if it’s curiosity setting, if I might exit and purchase a home outdoors of my present space or outdoors of a main residence as a realtor. Mindy, would you?

Mindy:I’d, however in a a lot cheaper space. So Amberly and I each reside in Longmont, Colorado, which is within the Denver suburbs and it’s costly right here. It’s so superior, nevertheless it’s costly to reside right here. The home costs I believe are like 5 or $600,000 median dwelling worth. Some locations like Indianapolis or Kansas Metropolis and even in Minneapolis, you’re seeing a lot decrease housing costs than what you’re seeing right here. And I can see why someone would need to get into actual property. They will’t afford the place they’re regionally, so that they go to considered one of these decrease priced areas and purchase actual property there. The Ohio rental market is admittedly, actually sturdy and housing costs aren’t that costly. So I can see why someone would need to go someplace else. I might simply warning them to first go to the property and go to the world. Just remember to know what you’re shopping for. I’ve heard some lower than savory tales within the BiggerPockets boards about how someone didn’t exit and see the property forward of time once they lastly employed someone to go and test it out for them. They have been horrified on the state of the property. So simply be sure to know what you’re getting your self into

Amberly:On the be aware of shares as a result of we’ve gone via the completely different ways in which somebody may put money into actual property. And once more, I believe I’ve outlined what I believe is probably the most helpful option to get to fireside. Let’s discuss your shares. What sort of portfolio, this isn’t monetary recommendation, however out of curiosity, what do you concentrate on the completely different portfolios that somebody may have within the inventory market to get them to fireside? We now have to take one closing advert break, however we’ll get into what we predict is the proper hearth portfolio after this. Thanks for sticking with us.

Mindy:So Scott and I’ve been speaking lately in regards to the 4% rule, the unique Invoice Benen research again in 1996 the place he talked about what’s the protected withdrawal price and he mentioned primarily based on a 60% shares, 40% bonds portfolio, you’ll be able to pull out 4% regulate for inflation yearly and proceed pulling out. You shouldn’t run out of cash in 30 years. And I believe there had a 96% success price. I don’t know very many individuals who’ve a big or important bond portfolio. I do know people who find themselves 90% in shares and 10% in bonds or bond like buildings. So Scott could be very lately bought 40% of his inventory portfolio to show it into actual property money flowing actual property that’s performing as his bond. He’s not 60 40 shares bonds but or shares bonds slash actual property, however he’s making his means there. I’m in all probability not going to be going into bonds very quickly simply because the inventory portfolio retains performing so effectively. However ideally I believe that, I imply Invoice Benen is way smarter than I’m and he mentioned 70 30, 60 40 inventory bond break up is what it’s best to have. So I believe folks ought to begin fascinated about this, particularly as they’re getting nearer to retirement.

Amberly:In the case of shares too, I all the time consider the guide The Easy Path to Wealth, and once I take into consideration that one, the advice there I believe is extra of a 90 10 shares to bonds and no worldwide as a result of the thought was JL column thought that giant corporations that we’re investing in, if you happen to put money into the s and p 500 are already touching worldwide as a result of they’re international corporations. However I do know that recommendation has lately modified. So the thought is also your inventory portfolio can comprise of not just some kind of s and p 500 index fund, however presumably some worldwide now as a result of like we mentioned, previous efficiency doesn’t essentially point out future efficiency although I don’t think about the highest 500 corporations within the US going all beneath. So I believe we’re protected there, however that worldwide piece is one thing we haven’t thought of previously and has been outperforming the s and p 500 and doing effectively. So I’m curious if you happen to would begin to transfer any of your portfolio right into a extra worldwide fund to even that out.

Mindy:Personally, no, however I can see why someone would need to contact into worldwide funds as a result of they’ve been doing so significantly better. Once more, we’re in a interval of uncertainty proper now with the inventory market and I actually don’t know sufficient about worldwide funds to talk intelligently on them. I might defer to the jail Collins remark of he doesn’t go into worldwide funds as a result of these international corporations are already type of touching internationally. So I might in all probability not do this, however I may see how someone would need to and if they’ve curiosity in it, I might encourage them to look into it additional. Do a whole lot of analysis. It is a enjoyable present the place we’re speaking about cash, however finally it’s your cash, so you need to be doing analysis and educating your self outdoors of simply listening to what Mindy mentioned on that present that one time.

Amberly:Agreed fully.

Mindy:Sure. I’ve an attention-grabbing statistic right here, Amber Lee. I believe it’s actually, actually enjoyable to notice that 87% of higher earnings People personal shares adopted by 65% of center earnings People and 25% of decrease earnings people. It’s the basic and confirmed option to accumulate wealth, increased threat perhaps since you don’t have any management over what’s occurring along with your shares, but in addition increased passive rewards.

Amberly:I might agree with that over time.

Mindy:Okay. Amber Lee, it appears like we each respect each features, actual property and inventory market, however we’ve a distinction of opinion the place to start out If you’re ranging from scratch and I believe that’s okay, I believe your opinion is legitimate. I believe my opinion is legitimate. What I need to encourage our listeners to do is whoever you agree with, whichever path you select to go, begin from a place of training and understanding what it’s you’re getting yourselves into For the actual property biggerpockets.com or biggerpockets.com/boards is a superb place to start out. Learn via a few of the questions individuals are asking, look and see the issues that they’re having. Are you going to have the ability to deal with these issues your self or are these going to make you say, Ooh, actual property’s not for me, then come over to my aspect and take a look at shares.

Amberly:Yeah, I believe that’s an awesome factor. Schooling first, take motion afterwards. And there are some horror tales about actual property on the market. I don’t know many horror tales about shares apart from if you happen to’ve pulled out the unsuitable time and by no means went again into the market. So simply be sure to can cope with somebody having a full on brawl in your basement smashing espresso tables and TVs. Sure, that has occurred to me, however hey, it was price it

Mindy:For that candy cashflow and occasional tables may be

Amberly:Changed. That’s precisely it. Yep. So it was undoubtedly well worth the journey for me and it might or will not be well worth the journey for you and as Mindy mentioned, the inventory market is a superb place as effectively. You’ll be able to’t go unsuitable both means.

Mindy:Amber Lee, this was a lot enjoyable chatting with you right this moment. I’m so excited to have you ever slipping into Scott’s house and being my co-host over the subsequent few weeks.

Amberly:I’m so glad to be doing this with you, Mindy, and although we will disagree on issues, we’re nonetheless buddies.

Mindy:We’re nonetheless buddies. Sure. Alright, that wraps up this episode of the BiggerPockets Cash podcast. She is Amber Lee, grant. Amber Lee. The place can folks discover out extra about you?

Amberly:Amber Lee grant.com.

Mindy:And I’m Mindy Jensen saying, see you quickly. Blue Moon, I.